#34 The Duke of Burgundy (CCMC)

Enjoy fourth episode of the PATREON EXCLUSIVE Cvlt Cast Media Club is a urine-filled, lesbian fever dream. We watched The Duke of Burgundy and Chastain got aroused, Erik was bored, Hannah was smartly analytical, and Max was mad that there weren't any Dukes. You know how we roll.

Click here to jump to the FULL TRANSCRIPT of this episode.


Enjoy fourth episode of the PATREON EXCLUSIVE Cvlt Cast Media Club is a urine-filled, lesbian fever dream. We watched The Duke of Burgundy and Chastain got aroused, Erik was bored, Hannah was smartly analytical, and Max was mad that there weren’t any Dukes. You know how we roll.

We talk about a lot of kinky things, power dynamics, and BDSM in this episode, so if you have questions, hit us up on social media! 

Click here to jump to the FULL TRANSCRIPT of this episode.

Terms of Note

Here are some terms and phrases we use in this podcast and links to articles we find informative. If we say something unfamiliar to you, please drop us a line on Twitter @podpodcvltcast FB /podpodcvltcast or email: thepod@podpodcvltcast.com Check out episode #1, #2, #3, #4,or #5 for some basic polyamory and kink terms. Or check out our glossary episodes #24 & #25

Resources & References

Episode 34 Transcript

Episode 34 Duke of Burgundy (CCMC)

Chastain 00:07
Welcome to the pod pod cvlt cast where we talk about life love, learning and libido, and share our journey through polyamory and kink. And this week, we’re bringing you an episode of our cult cast media Club, which is our Patreon exclusive podcast series, and we hope that it will excite delight and entice you to become a subscriber on Patreon. You can visit our website podpodcvltcast.com. That’s cvlt with a V /supportthepod and learn all about our Patreon access the entire Patreon website.

Our Subscribers get special access to updates about our lives, they get cool swag, and they of course get this exclusive podcast series where we read books and we watch shows and listen to music and watch movies that have some element of polyamory or kink. And even if they don’t specifically focus on those, we still try to link them back to our interests in our podcast. And we have a great time. You can also find out everything that we did at Disney and universal hear what’s going on in our lives. And sometimes we do special polls, really, it’s, it’s something not to be missed. So please, if you love the podcast, if you love us, if you enjoy what we’re doing here, consider supporting us again, that’s podpodcvltcast.com. Slash support the pod, we would really appreciate it.

There are different levels. And for each level, you get different kinds of swag, and all of you get access for as little as $1 a month to our exclusive podcast series. So go and subscribe to our Patreon right now.

Now coming up is an episode where we express our opinions about love and relationships, sex and kink polyamory and LGBT Q issues and whatever else comes up. And while we talk about these things, we may also touch on stuff like violence and abuse and mental health challenges and these can be difficult topics. So keep that in mind moving ahead.

We want to give our listeners a special big warm hug. There’s a lot going on right now with kovat 19 slash the corona virus. There is an infographic on our website, podpodcvltcast.com that talks about the difference between isolation versus self quarantine, it is absolutely okay for you to still continue on with your normal lives. If your jobs are told you to work from home. They’re trying to keep large groups from gathering but you can still get pizza delivered, you can still go to the store. Our infographic outlines everything you need to know about who is at risk and who is not at risk and gives you some links to the LA Times article we use to source the infographic as well as the CDC information we use for statistics. So please check that out.

You’re going to be okay. We know it’s scary. You know that everything is chaos right now and people tend to panic when this happens. But just remember that in times like this, the best thing that we have is each other so we can all pull together and feel loved. And speaking of pulling together and all of that love special shout out to our Patreon supporters, friends and family who helped me specifically get to podfest 2020 the Podfest Media Expo was a great learning experience for me to help make our podcast better for you the listener and a better experience for us as we produce this podcast. Keep listening, keep helping us grow, check out our Patreon and enjoy this episode of The Cvlt Cast Media Club. I’m gonna shut up now. We hope you have fun. Well, let’s not talk about that because we’re recording No, that’s not perfect. Like we thought we’re not bugging anybody,

Max 04:02

Chastain 04:04
When’s the last time you got blocked?

Erik 04:10
Well, now we’re getting into this other movie.

Max 04:13
I don’t think if I got

no makeup effect on that movie No,

Erik 04:17
well, no, not really.

Chastain 04:20
But do we know there were lots of thier dream sexy?

Erik 04:24
Yeah, there’s Yeah, there was a lot of stuff there going to San Francisco. It was that okay. That’s Intro

Chastain 04:36
Welcome to Cvlt Cast Media Club Number four, our Patreon exclusive series for our supporters on Patreon. We really appreciate your support and we thank you for believing in us. So we like to talk about books and movies and music that you know has to do with queer stuff poly am stuff kink stuff. All that stuff. And this particular movie that we’re about to talk about has a lot of that in it. We’re going to talk about the Duke of Burgundy. It was directed by Peter Strickland, and came out in 2014. You can watch it on Hulu with a subscription. Or you know, you could just steal it on the internet figure it out for yourselves. So we watched the Duke of Burgundy first impressions anybody?

Max 05:22
There was no Duke and there was damn little burgundy. So

Hannah 05:24
the Joker Bernie is a type of butterfly.

Max 05:26
Yeah. Oh shit.

Hannah 05:28
Pretty. It’s a very pretty visually

Erik 05:31
What? Okay, if I were to sum it up in a real short way. It’s as if somebody took all lesbian porn from the internet. Cut out all of the sex from it. stitch together all of the half has thrown together plots and then made it visually gorgeous. Well,

Max 05:51
we’re talking about like the movie structure wise and one heavy, like there’s a lot of weird, surrealistic cinema elements to it like there’s like Crazy screeching sounds like it sounds and stuff that’s just there to make you uncomfortable. Yes. So then an hour and a half or an hour 15 minutes and it’s straight up becomes a fucking broom well movie.

Chastain 06:11
Yeah, so the director, this Peter Strickland guy has done a bunch of stuff and most of the stuff falls in this sort of tribute genre to the movies of the 60s. This specifically was a tribute to a director named Jess Franco who was a Spanish filmmaker who did a lot of stylized lesbian and other kind of exploitation films. So this was all exploitation film and all psychedelic you know was very psychedelic. Yeah, all that stuff. Um, and and I was just excited because I guess it’s Cincy but cannot send. I don’t know how to pronounce her name, but she was in Westworld, but she was also in one of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo movies, I believe. So I just like her. Yeah, she’s a Danish Actress. I think she was on the American one. So there was no, I could be wrong about that.

Max 07:06
I don’t think I missed it. There was no card for the actual year. Right. Like so

Chastain 07:11
the director said, IT director says it’s like a 1980s kind of time period. No. Like I said in 1980 No,

Max 07:20
it was just a manual typewriter. Like they had

Hannah 07:24
I don’t she was actually typing anything. She wasn’t

Chastain 07:26
actually typing anything it was it was all part of the game. So the premise of this movie is we see a relationship between two women. And a director says that he didn’t didn’t really matter that there was two women it could have easily been two men that the whole point of the movie was not that they were queer or homosexual that the point of the movie was the relationship between the two people. So it opens and we have two characters we have Cynthia played by Kunitsyn and then cara, Donna, please Evelyn who is her apparent submissive in the beginning of the film and it opens with this beautiful bicycle seat. She’s, you know, riding her bicycle and she gets to this house and she knocks on the door. And Cynthia opens the door and says you’re late. And then it becomes this whole sort of mistress made fantasy that goes on and it’s all about this, you know, like, oh, you’re making mistakes. Oh, you’re not doing it well enough. You’re not fulfilling what I’ve told you to do from the Mr. C type. But then it flip flops at some point.

I don’t know. It doesn’t

Max 08:29
so much flip flop is shows that the truth of it right show that she’s

Chastain 08:35
talking from the bottom. Yeah.

Max 08:37
Yeah, I mean, she’s, it’s still a dynamic of a master slave relationship sort of only shows that the slave is bottom topping, right, which I don’t think is uncommon.

Chastain 08:51
No, it’s not. Well, there’s a point it’s early on in the movie and the aveline who’s the submissive quote unquote, in this movie, She has lots of whispering voiceovers, where she talks about like, this is all I’ve ever wanted and yada, yada, yada. And one thing she says, like to be own to be used as long as I’m yours, I’m happy. But it’s a sort of like, you have to make me mine. This prison of this relationship. It’s very strange. Well, it shows that they’re both in a prison of their

Max 09:20
own making. Yeah, both of them are Yeah. What isn’t clear to me is what is outside of the creative dynamic? What is the actual dynamic of the relationship? I think you are given to assume that Cynthia, who is older is the one of means and one of education and the one who has the power in the relationship for those reasons. But then it

Erik 09:41
was mentioned, I wasn’t sure that was actually the case. Right. kept saying, well, all of these clothes, right, right.

Max 09:48
Right. So Evelyn, the smells like I picked out for you. Right? Bought, right. Yeah, same thing. Yeah.

Chastain 09:54
And it seems like Cynthia is an authority figure in this field of I have to look at the word Left butterflies lepidoptera terminology butterflies, butterflies butterflies and Oh

Erik 10:07
yeah, most of us actually.

Chastain 10:09
Yeah. So moms, so they study Moz. And they had this little Women’s Club where they went and they talked about moths shit, including moth sounds, it was very strange.

Max 10:17
But you know, and I like the second the moth came on the screen. I was like, oh, there’s going to be a very clear native narrative of the younger woman, like her morphism metamorphosizing into something else. And there wasn’t like that wasn’t like I think it was just in that sense, the reveal that she was actually the one that was controlling.

Chastain 10:39
So I think I think the movie is tragically sad.

Max 10:46
Boring. Oh, it was kind of boring. But, but it was it was beautiful. And yes, it was also very, very sad.

Chastain 10:55
It was very, very sad because boiler then this is a point where we should say like, we’re gonna just boil This may be all over the place. Well, there’s like this topping from the bottom, they get away from it at one point. At one point, the submissive says like, we don’t have to do this. It’s fine. I love you. But at the very end of the movie, we see them going through the motions again, right? And, and it’s and the the mistress quote, unquote, Cynthia is very dead behind the eyes. And I don’t know, it’s heartbreaking because she wants to be with this person. And then the only way she can be with this person is to betray who she is, as a person. Well, didn’t

Erik 11:25
they kind of step away from that and become uncomfortable and then come running back to each other? In a sense, because they needed that kind of, Oh, we both suck at this dynamic, but with what we got, I don’t know. I kind of kind of got a bit of that out of it. Because that’s what happened like with the wind, she cleaned the other chicks boots, right.

Max 11:54
And then there’s a point in the movie where the submissive cleans the boots of someone else. who’s involved in the body architects?

Chastain 12:03
Or the carpenter or something like that? There’s the woman who builds the the kinky beds.

Max 12:08
Oh, I thought it was the woman at the

Erik 12:10
No wait, it was

Max 12:12
a woman looking in the look, was it?

Chastain 12:15
Yes. Mama blonde wig.

Max 12:18
Interesting. Okay,

Chastain 12:19
I thought so. I don’t know, I’d have to go look at that. Anyway,

Hannah 12:23
that wasn’t immediately obvious to me. But that doesn’t make sense. Yeah, that they would be the same person there. There was a woman that caught both of the couples like each individual couples attention at the lectures. Yes. who also has apparently another role and gets involved and it’s like it. It’s a cheating situation. Yeah, it was really interesting. I think it’s fascinating the way that it all unfolds in the first 30 or 45 minutes and the way everything layers in because you get to see for sort of the routine, it looks like the routine of their day, right? And then as you go on, you realise that this is just the routine. Have a specific like scripted game that they have together and as you go through it causes you to question sort of each iteration that came before as to how how much was agreed upon in advance and how much was improvised and how much was consensual right? And then there’s sort of a crisis point in the middle where you kind of lose touch with reality altogether like it’s it’s much less productive from that point on trying to pick apart like who was controlling who and then you kind of plunge into the extra bit we work we got to like we were 20 or 30 minutes from the ends like what is there left to do? Yeah,

Chastain 13:38
but I just I mean, I did I really couldn’t remember like, what else is gonna happen now, but they kind of reset back

Hannah 13:44
into the routine. It’s like there’s nothing else for them to touch. Yeah, the

Erik 13:49
submissive clean the other chicks boots and then the Cynthia started talking ship more and wearing a PJs.

Chastain 13:56
So I really liked that because

Erik 13:58
it was too there. Remember

Chastain 14:00
that the scene like I really liked that the scene I’ve actually done up, like making somebody make their own birthday cake scene did not work out well, just like that one didn’t work out. I shouldn’t know enough to know how to bake.

Erik 14:11
You can’t just tell somebody to do this. That’s not the point.

Chastain 14:15
They knew how to bake. That was the point. The point was, is that you know, you see, you see, Evelyn crying, like it’s her birthday, and her mistress has made her make her own cake, and is now eating the cake. while putting her foot on her throat. And she’s just sobbing. She’s just laying on the floor crying, because it’s not what she wants. It’s not the fantasy that she has. But meanwhile, you know, at that point, Cynthia the mistress seems pretty content or seems like she’s getting revenge or seems like she’s finding some fulfilment from what’s happening right then when she has the power.

Hannah 14:48
But then she says, Oh, I don’t you know, this isn’t for me, right? Want this? This isn’t who I am. I just do it for you. But in that moment, she seems to really take pleasure

Chastain 14:57
in holding it over and she wanted to do it in her own way. Right. So she pointed right?

Max 15:03
Yeah. Yeah. Well and so that that follows rather what the what Evelyn wanted her birthday gift to be was which was a fancy piece of sex furniture.

Chastain 15:16
So yeah, so they have that with a cage underneath that essentially

Max 15:18
right so they have the salesman of sexy King furniture has come on to the house who mentions by address her previous client which

Erik 15:30
is okay

Max 15:33
unprofessional lady.

Well I feel like

Chastain 15:36
I feel like this was a world that was created and not supposed to be based in reality.

Well, it was definitely not based in reality. And so I feel like this is a world

Erik 15:46
study most don’t live in shadow.

Max 15:48
Well, I feel like I think those are the only people who study mas people who have that that sort of disposable time.

Chastain 15:55
I feel like that this was supposed to be a very non judgmental look. relationships and compatibility and relationships. And because I don’t, I didn’t, there was no point in the movie where the fetish stuff and the kink stuff was treated as funny or nasty or anything like that. It was just very Matter of fact, and it was still all done very beautifully.

Max 16:19
Yeah. And it wasn’t even really treated as titillating.

Erik 16:22
No, right. It was it was just the daily grind,

Hannah 16:26
right? I get the same emotions watching this as I do when I watch match point. What does that bring?

Erik 16:36
Isn’t that when a tie in volleyball is right at the end of the

Hannah 16:40
Yes. So there’s there’s a tennis movie? Oh, tennis.

Erik 16:43
Yes. I’m gonna look it up. I wasn’t. I was actually close to the mark.

Hannah 16:49
Yes. Okay, cuz I don’t know what you’re talking about. All right, tangent just for a moment. Okay, so

Erik 16:57
vamping damping damping.

Hannah 17:01
You’re live, the Duke of Burgundy gives me the same emotions as when I watch match point, which is a woody allen from 2005 about a really messed up set of relationships that go wrong and you know that they’re going to and you kind of have to watch it unfold. But is that like very intense passion that draws you in with just like misery throughout. And that’s how I feel about this one. I’m like, this is so beautiful and I I want to engage with this, but it’s really painful for the people who are involved in it. So you know, you don’t really know how to think about it. It gets Yeah. conflicting emotions as I yeah, it’s like a hollow a very hollow look that at love.

Chastain 17:47
Yeah, hollow is a good way of so they’re like movies that happen. Movies happen movies that I see. And they do kind of leave you feeling emotionally empty. And that’s sort of how this I think this is is a beautiful movie and I find the kink stuff in it very interesting, because it has a lot of the things that I’m interested in it has a, you know,

Erik 18:07
domestic people’s mail.

Chastain 18:08
No, no, I’m not into golden showers.

Max 18:14
I mean, if you are you could watch karate kid that also is a golden child

Chastain 18:18
does have a golden shower. No the thing that I’m I’m very interested in service submission, like a lady’s maid type thing that’s my like that that whole, like putting your foot on somebody and they’re your furniture or their dusting around you and you get to tell and you get to drink your tea and read your book while they do it. That’s my jam. Well, you know,

Max 18:39
I’m not an expert on anything. None of us are really experts on anything. We just talk about stuff from our own experience. And in my own experience, like I thought that was a really honest portrayal of how topping in play can be just fucking exhausting. Yes, so people who have 24 seven likes lifestyle dynamics. Yes. Like, every time somebody I hear about that, or somebody tells me they’re in one of those relationships, all I can think is God, that must be fucking exhausting. Yeah. You know?

Chastain 19:12
Well, so I mean, you’re taking responsibility for some somebody, but the way that I view it is if somebody is going to be in service to you, their job is to make your life easier. Their job is not for me to have to manage them. So I can’t I cannot dominate or be in a DS dynamic with somebody who can’t think for themselves if I have to tell you every step of the process. Like I need you to be able to make mental leaps between you know, here’s the goal and here’s where you are now. I can’t do all of that for you. That’s too much mental work for me.

Erik 19:42
That’s exactly what this was in this movie. Right? shaded all handwritten out. And this is this is the script. This is how this goes.

Chastain 19:51
Well, but the bottom did that. That’s, yeah.

Hannah 19:55
It’s still frustrated. Yeah. I don’t understand what it was. No, but maybe well, she’s easy to dislike, I think in this portrayal, but also she’s not. She’s pursuing somebody who clearly isn’t able or even interested in giving her the experience that she wants. Maybe nobody could have, you know, her expectations were just, you know, way beyond. But I also think that, like you said, there’s in compatibility there to say, you know, I love you as an individual, but I have to have this set of other things in my life or I’m not happy, right?

Max 20:31
What it wasn’t even clear to me what Cynthia is getting out of that relationship at all. And I think shrubs,

Chastain 20:39
and like rubs and like dresses,

Max 20:41
I think it’s presented. Again, I think this is a really honest portrayal that a lot of times we find ourselves in relationships where we’re not really getting anything out of it. Yeah, but we so badly want to be in a relationship, that we still pursue it. Because we so badly want to be in a relationship and I think That’s what’s portrayed here is that Yeah, she’s not getting anything out of this she is is working her ass off to please a partner because when she is unable to fill that top role and to go by the script that set out for her to follow, like she breaks down and like asks, Evelyn right Ella to not be angry at her right? Yeah, she literally like literally broke down like she that’s when her back problems started flaring up and all that sort of stuff like that was represented in a actual physical manifestation.

Hannah 21:35
Oh, something I noticed this time that I didn’t notice the first time I watched it. Whenever she has her back injury. She says, Oh, my back does this every few years, it’ll be fine. So they haven’t been together right at all. Not enough for her to know like, what her existing health conditions are, you know what the routines of her life are. So it’s just a really intense relationship. That that hasn’t had much time. experience under honour yet

Max 22:01
I wasn’t paying close enough attention at first, I think was the green skirt always a signal that she was in the like submissive maid role? Oh, you know, I never

Erik 22:12
a couple of different outfits. But that was one of them I

Chastain 22:16
thought I don’t think so. I think Cynthia’s clothing were the only consistent.

Max 22:22
She wore the green skirt a lot. Yes. Yeah. I thought that was a signal. Yeah, I

Erik 22:27
didn’t pay it was always wearing the green skirt in the bedroom. And she was always wearing the other thing when she was in the study. Okay, it was kind of more room based. Okay, interesting. Yeah.

Chastain 22:37
So I wrote I wrote a list of just like things that I saw that that spoke to different interests, not fetishes, but interests that I have. So hosiery, and stockings,

Erik 22:51
lots of lots of laundry. She was wearing two pairs of stockings in that one scene, am I imagining that like she pulled a pair off and then pulled another pair off? I don’t know because I started chuckling I made several

Hannah 23:04
bits Yeah, they went through a

Erik 23:05
lot of those there No, there were a lot of repeated shots. This wasn’t a repeated shot, but there were two pairs taken off

Chastain 23:13
Yeah, I don’t remember that.

Erik 23:14
Well, that’s that’s the weird shit I’ve noticed.

Chastain 23:18
So the the list of things that I found interesting were so there’s a lingerie fetish voyeurism, the voyeurs on the look the looking through the people. And when they do it, when they when they flip it around, and you see what the fantasy is actually like for Cynthia, the one who’s having to the top in this fantasy, when she’s just like pacing the floor, and like checking her watch and making sure that she’s drinking water so she can pee in her girlfriends mouth later and all that stuff. Like I really enjoyed that aspect of it as a top especially because there is just a lot of like, Alright, well, they’re going to be tied up and blindfolded for another 15 or so. So I’m just going to do this like, kill time. I could take my shoes off for a little bit, that kind of stuff. Their domestic service Of course, golden showers, but like the idea of punishment, but it was bratty punishment. It was like the like here I’ve scripted this punishment for you to give me because but it wasn’t really punishment. So I don’t understand how it works psychologically for her. And the human toilet stuff was really interesting. I mean, golden showers are slightly different than human toilet stuff. And it’s because it’s less about the fetish for having urine on you and more about the degradation. And I mean, obviously, the submissive in this was into degradation. But I don’t think Cynthia could do that.

Erik 24:37
Actually, there was the one scene where she literally couldn’t do that. Like, she didn’t have to pee,

Chastain 24:44
right? She was unable to pee, and then everyone goes, we can turn the faucet on.

Erik 24:52
Well, yeah.

Hannah 24:55
Did everyone else also keep hearing be nasty?

Erik 25:00
Sounds like the safe word was being asked gostrey ministry

Hannah 25:08
which refers to this thinks that they kept show Yeah.

Max 25:11
Oh, I have no I really thought her she was telling her to be nasty to her I thought that was like her begging for her to be nasty to her. It was very confusing

Erik 25:22
under those that frame of mind Yes,

Hannah 25:26
yeah. Go back and look at like when the mouse up here versus how they’re using that very safe word and try to like piece it together but it doesn’t all fit tidally loose motif or

Chastain 25:36
something. I noticed this desk go around and watching it. I think this is the third time I’ve seen it. The safe word itself became a thing of dread for Cynthia, because when Evelyn was locked away in the chest, it was like that was gonna get some sleep. Yeah, Cynthia could rest she could just be herself. She could be comfortable. There’s not a lot of comfort in this movie. And anytime we seek Cynthia being comfort, comfortable, it’s always at the disdain of Evelyn Evelyn’s always very grumpy about the fact that Cynthia is comfortable and not being hot for her at that moment in time.

Hannah 26:15
That’s just something I noticed.

Erik 26:18
Yeah, they kind of beat you over the head with it.

Max 26:22
Yeah, you know, in the, in the world of the movie, I was just thinking about it a little bit more. It is not only a world constructed with just one gender, it is just a weird fucking world where there are no automobiles. Now it is a world where there is an institute dedicated to butterflies and malls, closes over the winter, where people go, what weekly or monthly or whatever, to hear a lecture from someone else who just goes there to hear lectures about butterflies in malls and closes everything.

Chastain 26:59
call centres international like so I study mas and I and I pee in my submissives mouth and I’m gonna buy this new home and the south of France.

Max 27:09
dollar Chateau. Yeah. Yeah, it’s just a very, very strange world that is constructed. And I guess yeah, I guess the point is just focus on the relationship, not on a real world where people will have to go to work and you know, clean house, other than for

Chastain 27:28
well, and it’s only set in those two places. It’s set in the house and at this meeting hall, but we don’t get to see a lot of that.

Max 27:34
And they have like, and they have like picnics in the Yeah, or whatever. Like

Chastain 27:38
there’s so there’s outside. And when they’re outside, they’re just, they’re just normal people when they’re inside. They’re constantly battling with trying to be trying to get what they need or trying to be with the other person needs. And then when they’re when they’re at the hall. They’re suspicious or wanted painting

Max 27:56
an image.

Chastain 27:57
Yes, yeah.

Erik 28:00
But I didn’t understand at all what that image was supposed to be.

Max 28:04
Right? Evelyn’s trying to like, seem smarter and more important than she interesting.

Chastain 28:12
Everyone wants to be interesting, right? Everyone wants Cynthia to want her. But she can only feel wanted by Cynthia. Cynthia is degrading her and Cynthia can’t degrade her.

Erik 28:25
Right so why try to show up and talk shit on the other people that are talking about mas that didn’t fit?

Chastain 28:31
Well, that’s a very young sort of ingenue kind of roll thing when you when you feel like you’re not getting attention from the elder person in your life that you’re either relationship with or interested in. You do create these false competitions with other people to try and make yourself look better.

Hannah 28:52
And I think that was also a moment where she was idolising her partner because the first lecture that you see right is on The one that Cynthia gives right and you see, you know, just the love and admiration Yeah. And so next time is just very disappointing because who is this you know, younger, less interesting, less experienced woman you should be the one up there and it’s almost like she’s showing off on behalf of Cynthia but of course in the is an expert and a mature person who doesn’t need that and so it’s just like this disjointed is really frustrating and you can see how both they’re both frustrated you know, not with each other but just with the the mismatch of the situation and I thought it was interesting every time that they are genuinely intimate and enjoying each other maybe not every time but there’s definitely a pattern there pictured in reflections there’s and you know, catching on like in the window like double overlaid frames. Yeah,

it’s fine. It’s very blurry Ghazi it’s very

Hannah 29:58
late, but every time that there are lined and they’re, you know, sort of reflecting back one another’s desires, you get a really visual representation of that. And as you go, you know, into that crisis point, that’s when, you know, the black box literally that she’s been Yes. And they focus in on that emblem. Yes. Instead of the reflection. It’s just a black hole.

Chastain 30:20
Yes. So yes, there’s a mirror, I think over the bed or by the batter’s going and open in there. Exactly. Then they have a similar shape on the box. It’s also they do a lot of having both of them look into mirrors alone. Cynthia does a lot of looking in the mirror at herself while she’s getting ready and things like that. One thing I thought was strange, I didn’t quite understand why it happened was so after Evelyn cheats, and after they go through some stuff, Evelyn just like, like looks like shit for a while. And she has like this crazy white lady kind of look to her like her hair’s all frizzy. She’s got extra extra dark smudge I make up and she looks almost gone. Like she’s starving. And that was a very I don’t understand what exactly was causing that. Was it just portraying misery? Was it portraying how much of it was a lack of fulfilment? Or was it drama?

Max 31:11
Right? How much of that was reality? And how much of that was like the fantasy? Right? Yeah. Right. fantasy elements a real element of the movie, right?

Chastain 31:21
Yeah. Which I mean, much of the movie was surrealism. And then we’d have these little psychedelic montages and blurry lovemaking scenes.

Max 31:32
Yeah, yeah. The, the push in on Cynthia’s crotch that went into the the weird Bridwell segment. Yes, was tough and weird. Yeah. But there’s no art to this movie. Nobody gets better. Nobody grows nobody. Like they all the movie does is reveal their sadness. Yeah, you know, and you’re left to Assume or left to learn that they have been this all along. And they are going to remain in this. Yeah.

Hannah 32:09
Interesting. The phrasing. You know, whenever Cynthia breaks down and she says, I’ll change myself, right? Because obviously that’s not what either of them wants. They love each other. Right? So they’re gonna, you know, as long as they have that to give, they’re gonna keep trying, but it’s not working. Yeah.

Chastain 32:42
Can we revisit the mannequins?

Erik 32:45
Yeah, I think that was just a cost saving thing.

Max 32:48
But there were only so in this whole there were what 50 people and three or four mannequins that we picked out like that doesn’t really fill out what it was

Chastain 32:59
Like they weren’t even positioned in ways that would make natural way they were

Max 33:03
positioned in hands right in a way that you would notice that they were in the head man. Hands. Hey, yeah, I think that was just part of the like,

Chastain 33:13
unsettling. Yeah,

Hannah 33:14
yeah. Yeah. There’s also a mannequin in her dressing room like uncomfortably forward into the camera while she’s getting dressed. At least one Oh, yeah. I was trying to piece together like some kind of pattern there but it never really.

Max 33:26
I think it’s just like the the uncanny sounds it’s just the stuff that’s there to make you uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s not a comfortable setting. Anyway, like think about sitting in those straight back chairs, listening to somebody talk about bugs for

Chastain 33:44
and playing bug sounds really loud. So Erik, at one point, you said Finally, when they opened the box and there was a skeleton inside?

Erik 33:52
Yeah, I did.

Chastain 33:55
But what what prompted that

Erik 33:59
because in that weird like surreal scene amongst the surreal scenes. It was a reveal of this like they had just shown her going into the box and, and panache creepin on St. Ministry and then she opens it and there’s a scout and it’s like oh finally this this needy bitch is dead

Max 34:22

Erik 34:25
I can move on with my life now

Hannah 34:27
I thought it was gonna be finally we have pushed through into the horror part of the movie which also was not really no it wasn’t

Erik 34:36
no no it’s just it seemed that Westworld chick was just getting more and more and more unhappy with the demands of this other chick and now she was dead, but then she followed her out into the woods and found her in a different box. So and then

Chastain 34:52
they embraced and then they were fine for a little while. And then we were back out of the vulva cam.

Erik 34:58
Yeah, and then it pulled up. Then a bunch of math wings and roll credits. Yeah,

Max 35:03
uh, it would have been more interesting. I don’t know what the resolution would have been. But it would have been more interesting if they had just continued down that path with Cynthia actually exerting her own dominance without being scripted over her. Right. But in her like, Jamie’s in her own way, you know, and then the resolution of the story would had to have been Evelyn breaking free in some kind of way, because that also would not be satisfying for her just to be unhappy forever. Well, you

Chastain 35:35
know, I think it’s, I think it’s interesting because I mean, obviously, Evelyn uses a safe word. And Cynthia covers her mouth her foot

Max 35:46
and said something says, You can’t just Panesar your way out of everything or something. Yeah,

Chastain 35:51
basically, like you can’t safe word your way out of this. And that’s a really uncomfortable moment for me because, I mean, we’re talking about consent. Like obviously, she can get Get up off the floor. But but there is such a deep connection between the two. Like, I do feel like that whole birthday cake scene was very damaging to the relationship. It was definitely damaging to the trust that Evelyn was putting in Cynthia, to, like, kind of be the manifestation of her fantasies,

Erik 36:18
whoa, what she was more explicitly doing or at least this is how I interpreted it is she started doing the things that the other chick was doing. You know, the other IOU you polished her boots. And she was saying, Oh, we didn’t do anything. Well, we did this and this that they did was that she was talking in a degrading way to Evelyn and so

Max 36:44
degrading shoulders told her Yeah, I was always

Erik 36:48
told her off that was.

Chastain 36:49
Well, I mean, obviously what’s happening here is we have a submissive who’s bottoming from the top, top and topping from the bottom. There we go. Topping from the bottom and a top a sir who is serving Topping a top who is going like, Oh, well, this is what you tell me what and so I’m doing it of my own accord and my own way. But that’s not what you want. You just want me to do what you want me to do. Yeah.

Max 37:13
They expressed one time and I’m sorry, you were getting racist, no good to express one time. Evelyn asks to go to the restroom, and is told no. Right. And we know we have known we do know, people who have had that as part of their agreement with their, you know, topper master or whatever. Yes. And like, Man, that’s one part of that relationship I can imagine because I have a real small bladder and it would be a problem.

Chastain 37:42
So but but that’s the thing that they agreed to. That’s the thing. So, you know, in the in the total power exchange classes that I’ve been to, the relationships that I’ve seen, are typically they have an agreement about what kind of things will be worn, what kind of things will be eaten and so forth. When you need to ask permission and when you don’t, and when it’s expected for you to just function like a human being and have your own accord. The examples of those relationships I’ve seen, it’s usually there’s somebody who’s a little more service oriented, who’s on the bottom half of that, or the little letter or the submissive side or slave side, or what have you. They actually do have some ability to like, manage things, but the thing that they’re getting out of it is like psychological accountability. That’s what they get. Like, I’m better able to do this for myself, if I know that I’m doing it for that person. But yeah, there’s a whole psychology of that stuff that we can talk about, but not in this episode.

Hannah 38:46
Yeah, I was really torn over the cake scene also. Because in some ways, it did seem like they were each trying to do the thing that would fix it. None other way. It was just sort of vindicating, because, you know, one of them has been kind of cruel to the other. You want to see them get their comeuppance? But, you know, obviously, you’re watching. What is a consent violation that shouldn’t have happened? Yeah, but you know that nobody’s in danger. So, to me, it looks, it looked basically like an ultimatum. Like you can accept this thing that I need right now to get back at you for what you did to me. Or you can get up and leave and this will be over. And that’s why she looked happy.

Erik 39:36
Because she looked a little happier in that scene. Cynthia did,

Hannah 39:40
yes. Yeah. Yeah, you know, was just breaking just a little, not all the way to a real conversation, you know, where they would have had to face what had happened, but facing it sort of within the game,

Chastain 39:54
and it was true. I don’t know that this is the right word, but this is the word that comes to mind. It was at that point, true subjugation. Like or true surrender. Everyone was finally surrendering to Cynthia, which was something she never did. And all the time she was submitting, she never surrendered.

Max 40:12
Yeah, you said you said ultimatum. There’s a phrase, trying to remember that someone I used to know, would use, like break up by proxy or something where you won’t break up with someone. You just forced them into a situation where they have to break up with you. Right? So that’s like, Oh, yeah, but or a specific phrase I’m trying to remember. But yeah, so it looks like she’s trying to force her into a position of going like, Oh, this isn’t actually what I wanted. Right? This has to,


Hannah 40:47
Allow me to reassert my dominance over you. Right because you’re sure. You can get out and stuck together

Max 40:59
which is holding on unsatisfying,

Hannah 41:00
absolutely not a great resolution

Max 41:02
for the characters and for every

Chastain 41:04
resolution. There’s no growth. Yeah. So spoilers.

Max 41:11
So there is a Duke of Burgundy. It’s a damn butterfly. Yeah, there’s no resolution or growth. There’s no plot. Really. There’s no plot, there’s playability.

Chastain 41:22
There’s a bad guy. There’s a danger mall.

Max 41:25
There’s no monster. There was no monster

Erik 41:28
they knew they knew your

Max 41:29
ball. There is no like kick ass fight scene.

Hannah 41:34
Did they be nasty?

Max 41:35
They didn’t even be nasty. They beads mildly nasty. You could hear her pee.

Hannah 41:42
Or was it the top running?

Chastain 41:44
No. I think the first time it was her.

Max 41:45
I thought she was sticking her in the shower. That’s why I asked you guys what was going on? She was peeing in her mouth. Yeah. No doubt that life

Erik 41:57
I mean, yeah, yeah. Right, there’s a lot of stuff in that movie that I don’t really have a problem with.

Max 42:05
per se. Yo, can anybody do that?

Hannah 42:09
Yeah, I don’t think it was about any one thing that happened it was about the ways that they weren’t able to really respect each other right? Yeah.

Erik 42:21
But if there were, you know, like actual conflict or plot and stuff like that, then they would have been too busy to worry about any of it.

Chastain 42:28
All right, Quiz time.

Erik 42:30
Yes. Be 26 and a half. And no


Chastain 42:42
Quiz time, Max. Yo, are you a Cynthia or an Evelyn?

Max 42:47
I am a Cynthia, I was straight up like, you know, I’ve service top and like been bossed around from the bottom and like, have found the whole thing very exhausting and

Chastain 42:59
and taking off your way. Get just fuck this. Yeah,

Max 43:02
yeah. Yeah. I mean if that’s the question who we identify more with? Definitely that

Chastain 43:07
Hannah, Cynthia or Evelyn?

Hannah 43:10
I don’t think so. And either.

Max 43:13
Now Hannah’s not.

Hannah 43:15
Um, no, but I don’t know. Certainly, like, I can identify with some of the motions on either side. I think

Chastain 43:23
I’m the carpenter. I’m the lady who makes furniture

Erik 43:27
I’m the carpenter if we’re putting it

Chastain 43:29
because she asserted a healthy boundary. She said it’s going to take eight weeks to do this.

Max 43:35
How come I had to actually answer the damn question that you asked and you’re like, I’m neither of those things.

Erik 43:40
Fuck off. I was gonna do I was gonna say actually that I was the neighbour that was always raking the leaves. Yeah, I had broken and I have to worry about

Max 43:52
such silliness. I no damn butterfly.

Chastain 43:58
Butterflies in the sky.

Erik 44:01
This is not Reading Rainbow. Don’t Sorry, that was LeVar Burton. Take a look.

Chastain 44:07
It’s in a book. Okay, Sharpie in your mouth.

Sorry. All right. So I’m Erik, Evelyn or Cynthia.

Erik 44:17
Was the neighbour you’re the neighbour. Yeah, raking the leaves cuz I got to work. Okay, I don’t have a lot of money. I have time for this

Chastain 44:24
lush movie that was just opulence.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, like

Hannah 44:28
maybe if I had nothing to do all day. Yeah, that’s why I would

Erik 44:33
be cool. firstworldproblems.

Max 44:35
But like I said, I think the point is that you can focus on the relationship and the dynamic, because they don’t have to go to work, right? Like it was where, you know, one of them had to go to an office job and the other one had to do you know, then it would be the secretary in the library, or whatever. Like, that would be an entirely different things, but like the entire focus is Yeah, like that terrible mother made. That’s just you know that way. So they never have to like leave the house. The whole point is they don’t have to leave the house. They’re just inside this. Yeah, in this relationship.

Chastain 45:10
Yeah. So I guess that’s wraps up Episode Four of the cvlt cast media club, our Patreon exclusive theme Ababa unless anybody has anything else to say about Mars butterflies screeches in the night.

Max 45:26
And to make it clear, like I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn’t such a straightforward and amorphous movie, because I was gonna be like, God, Jesus Christ. You really well, like make it that

Erik 45:36
yeah, if it was that then they definitely overplayed the the butterfly. Yeah, yeah. So I’m actually and I read this, just in a second have a review of it. What was said there was that the butterfly imagery was more serving the purpose of showing that they were the butterflies in case they were pinned into that glass. Yeah, that’s They were nothing more than that, and they couldn’t change it. It was kind of an homage to the sounds of the lambs, I’m sure. So, I, why not? Sure. I’ll go with it. So

Chastain 46:18
thank you so much for your support. You make it possible for us to keep bringing you caucus media club episodes, where we read watch lists and all kinds of stuff. And next month, we are going to watch Weird Science. So if you want to check those things out, please do so so you can get in on the conversation, send us a message on Patreon. Check us out on the social media wars. We really appreciate your support. We also appreciate you sharing the podcast and rating reviewing us on iTunes or whatever player you happen to listen to. And you know, since this does go out directly to the people who are paying to help us out so that means that they believe in what we’re doing here. You know, say something different recommend our podcast to your pals go on your Facebook polyamory group. So let’s let’s get let’s get real and let’s get real. And kind of intimate on the mic with our, our Patreon supporters right now, you know, and I do see them sharing things on social media, and they give us a lot of personal feedback and we appreciate every single bit of it. You know, there’s nothing better than hearing that, like Tuesdays when we release our podcast, our favourite days of the people that love the podcast. We’re really surprised that anybody listens to the podcast.

Erik 47:23
Yeah. It’s wonderful to be highlighted. It’s awesome. I don’t

Chastain 47:29
understand, but you like us, so hey,that’s cool.

Max 47:33
I do I understand it because I think the podcast is great.

Chastain 47:36
I think podcast is awesome. I think it’s awesome for me. So um, so thank you to my co host, Max, Hannah and Erik. And I’m Chastain thank you for you know, helping to make this podcast great and making it something that people are falling in love with. I’m really proud of us. Keep listening. And yeah,

Pod Pod Cvlt Cast 47:54
Bye. Bye.

Chastain 47:56
You’ve been listening to the Pod Pod Cvlt Cast with your hosts Max, Hannah, Chastain, and Erik our theme music is by Logo Logo. Our break music is pale blue by Garbarino it can find Episode shownotes social media and contact information at podpodcvltcast.com remember that cvlt with a V. Our podcast is brought to you by our supporters on Patreon visit podpodcvltcast.com/supportthepod to subscribe to our Patreon now and become a supporter become a shipmate. Thanks for listening!

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Pod Pod Cvlt Cast

PodPodCvltCastCover podcast about polyamory/kink life, love, learning and libido